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I couldn't believe how fired up Fran was just before halftime and I don't blame him. Lets say the clock stopped at 4 seconds instead of 11 and they determined that 5 seconds had come off. Would they have just ended the half without giving Siena a shot? If this was the case I think we might have seen Fran go Bobby Knight style and whip a chair across the floor.
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Fran was very fired up the whole first half. Was giving the ref's and the scorers table an earful. I'm not sure if that was operator error or a electronic malfunction. I must say, when we are in those situations at the end of a half with possession and no shot clock, i don't like the quality of shots that we usually end up with- typically Ronald hoisting up a prayer. I'd rather see Eddie with the ball in a clear out situation.
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It certianly wasn't the refs fault. All they could do was look at how much time expired from when they stopped play.
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SienasBiggestFan wrote:I couldn't believe how fired up Fran was just before halftime and I don't blame him. Lets say the clock stopped at 4 seconds instead of 11 and they determined that 5 seconds had come off. Would they have just ended the half without giving Siena a shot? If this was the case I think we might have seen Fran go Bobby Knight style and whip a chair across the floor. Yes--as nuts as it seems--if more time had lapsed than was left on the clock, they would have ended the half without giving Siena a shot. That was how the Xavier/Butler game ended earlier this season, with Xavier getting the short end of the decision.
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big papi wrote:It certianly wasn't the refs fault. All they could do was look at how much time expired from when they stopped play. Yes it is the ref's fault, they should have an eye on the clock just as much as Ubiles does, why did it take them 9 seconds to realize the clock was off, only after Ubiles and McCaffery let them know.
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Q-man wrote:big papi wrote:It certianly wasn't the refs fault. All they could do was look at how much time expired from when they stopped play. Yes it is the ref's fault, they should have an eye on the clock just as much as Ubiles does, why did it take them 9 seconds to realize the clock was off, only after Ubiles and McCaffery let them know. I agree that it is the refs responsibility to notice the clock stopage/malfunction, but my guess is that the actual rules only allow a review of the clock and adjustments based on the review and not the "what should have been seen by the refs". So it becomes an uncorrectable error on the part of the refs, much like an inadvertent whistle.
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Why have a clock operator then? The refs might as well keep score too.
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Just watched the replay of the game and that incident. MSG put a clock on the screen prior to the 12.5 second stoppage and continuing to the point where Eddie signaled that the clock had stopped. They show pretty convincingly that the zebras, in keeping with the way they officiated the entire game, screwed up and took 3 too many seconds off. I wonder if those boneheads were timing the replay AT A SLOWER SPEED? 6.3 vs 3.3 is a huge difference. While we don't have a good track record running those plays, the extra 3 seconds might have gotten a better shot. You can see the MSG analysis if you scan through the halftime show - it's presented right before the start of the second half.
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I knew it! That play could have cost us the game. Only in the MMM.
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Two things, it is not the refs jobs to be watching the clock. They are too busy to be looking up at the clock ever 5 seconds. Imagine how many fouls they would miss because they are looking up too make sure there isnt a clock malfunction. The clock keeper/Score book guy/table official, whatever his title is, should be watching for that. And point it out.
There should be a rule change, clocks in the final 30 seconds shouldn't just take off how much time would if the clock had not stopped. It should be a judgment call. Obviously Siena was waiting till 8 or 9 seconds to start their play. So the clock should've been started at 10 seconds. Same thing in the Butler game earlier in the year. They should've said the clock stopped, and the game should've ended, but we will put 2 seconds on so Xavier has a shot at winning, not just walk off the court and say nice day.
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Two things. I don't think that anyones saying that the Refs should become clock watchers. But they should be able to properly count off the seconds when they go to the scorers table. In the butler game, they had an official stop watch to use to get the time exactly right. It appears that their was no stopwatch in our MMM game, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Second, I agree that there should be a rule change, but I don't think they can do it like you said because it's too arbitrary. I think it should be a do over. A huge part of basketball is managing the clock. In both instances of the Butler game and the less important Siena game the integrity of the clock was compromised, which effected the outcome of the style of play. Therefore, I think to restore the integrity you should restore the game to the point of the malfunction. Of course, the problem with this is it could potentially take away plays, but I think it's better than what we have now. It could be decided that this only be used for the regular game clock and not the shot clock, and only at the ends of halfs.
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gorvy wrote:Two things. I don't think that anyones saying that the Refs should become clock watchers. But they should be able to properly count off the seconds when they go to the scorers table. In the butler game, they had an official stop watch to use to get the time exactly right. It appears that their was no stopwatch in our MMM game, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Second, I agree that there should be a rule change, but I don't think they can do it like you said because it's too arbitrary. I think it should be a do over. A huge part of basketball is managing the clock. In both instances of the Butler game and the less important Siena game the integrity of the clock was compromised, which effected the outcome of the style of play. Therefore, I think to restore the integrity you should restore the game to the point of the malfunction. Of course, the problem with this is it could potentially take away plays, but I think it's better than what we have now. It could be decided that this only be used for the regular game clock and not the shot clock, and only at the ends of halfs. They definitely had a stopwatch. I saw Hughes with it just as they got ready to watch the replay. If you watch the game again you can see him put it back on the scorer's table just before he makes his ruling. Only thing that would make "sense" is that they somehow used the watch while watching a replay in slower than realtime motion (not unusual for replays requested by all officials). A six second realtime gap could take nine seconds in slow motion. They blew it (pun intended).
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That's worse than not having a stop watch! lol
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